Getting Featured in the Media

[0:00:00.04] All right.

[0:00:00.36] Well, welcome everybody.

[0:00:01.28] I am delighted to be with you here today.

[0:00:02.92] I've been with this community a few times before, but never done this particular curriculum or module, so I'm excited to dive in.

[0:00:10.44] I've taught this a few times before, but this is a freshly updated version and there's a lot to get through.

[0:00:16.92] It's probably going to be more than you need, but I like to air on that side and we can race through and then pause where you find the most value.

[0:00:25.8] So we're talking about how to hack the media today, and I am going to cover this very simple outline with a lot going on in it.

[0:00:36.12] First, I want to tell you about what is the media right now In 2023, it's a different story than it was 5/10/15 years ago and I've been in media for a while, so I can tell you in from personal experience that it's very different.

[0:00:48.64] Two ways to get into the media as simple as possible.

[0:00:52.2] The Nova score, which is a way to evaluate yourself and to try to increase your desirability for getting into media and then some specific tactics.

[0:01:04.04] Media 101 All right, what are we talking about?

[0:01:07.48] What is the media?

[0:01:08.76] It is any platform where people sell news to an audience.

[0:01:13.6] It can be newspapers, magazines.

[0:01:15.88] Nowadays, podcasts are very big and it can be an individual, or it can be a whole organization of thousands of people.

[0:01:22.52] YouTube channels with media.

[0:01:24.08] And yes, even individual Twitter accounts.

[0:01:26.2] A number of them are media.

[0:01:29.48] It's very fragmented now and that means there are more opportunities and there are also in some ways fewer rules and how you get featured by the media.

[0:01:40.12] And that's a good thing for people like us.

[0:01:44.24] Why should you care about the media?

[0:01:46.48] Well, the bigger you grow, the more you need to know about the media.

[0:01:50.08] They can be your enemy or your friend.

[0:01:52.32] And Elon Musk has seen both ends of this.

[0:01:54.12] He has, perhaps more than anyone around, used media to his advantage in business with SpaceX.

[0:02:00.96] With Tesla, he's been the hype of the century for a long time, and now he's the bet noire because people don't like what he's doing with Twitter, people in the media in particular.

[0:02:10.52] He's a wonderful example of the power of media as a form of leverage for your business goals.

[0:02:17.24] And I previously had a slide here with Sam Bankman Freed, another product of the media's power.

[0:02:24.4] He created a business essentially from media buzz about him being a wonderful, visionary entrepreneur.

[0:02:30.4] OK, and that obviously was a fraud, but it tells you how powerful his ability to use the media was that he could pull it off for as long as he did.

[0:02:40.52] What do I know about the media?

[0:02:43.12] I've put some rough clips up here just to give you a sense of the kinds of places and things that I've written about.

[0:02:49.32] This is just a sampling.

[0:02:50.84] I used to be an executive editor at The Atlantic, a publication within it called The Atlantic Wire, which was a digital first publication back when that was cutting edge.

[0:02:59.6] I have written for The Atlantic, of course, Rolling Stone, Esquire, CNBC, Wall Street Journal, all the mainstream media places that you may have heard about.

[0:03:08.12] I still have many friends in high editorial positions.

[0:03:10.28] I am no longer in the media, which is why I'm doing this sort of presentation.

[0:03:13.4] I'm a communications executive.

[0:03:16.28] Apologize that that slide jumped.

[0:03:17.64] I don't know why.

[0:03:18.56] And most recently founder of a thought leadership agency called Atlantic Partners where we build people's platform and visibility with the media and take them all the way to launching their own big idea book.

[0:03:34.48] OK, here is the world's simplest explanation for how the media works.

[0:03:40.04] And I'm including in the media anyone who has a large audience and a regular cadence of publishing on news in the in their niche.

[0:03:47] So the media is made-up of people something to remember.

[0:03:50.32] And the people who do it, their job is to tell stories that matter to their audience every day.

[0:03:54.8] And if you're in that position, you know it's not always easy to come up with that story, and they always need more of it, and it's not easy to find them.

[0:04:01.76] They have a supply problem.

[0:04:03.76] The world does not provide enough news that is easy for them to report.

[0:04:07.92] And so they actually need a supply of news.

[0:04:12.16] And it's not easy to find unique, interesting stories that will elevate the profile of the media brand.

[0:04:18.24] So there is more demand for stories than you know.

[0:04:21.32] And you just need to tell the media why you matter and why they should write about you without looking like you're trying to do those things.

[0:04:33.56] All right, The two very simple ways you get into media, and this covers a lot of them.

[0:04:39.68] They either write about you or you write about yourself.

[0:04:42.72] And we're gonna walk through both of them and they both have their advantages and their challenges.

[0:04:48.36] Can I, can I ask a quick question, Ben, if you don't mind about the, the, the, the point you mentioned earlier about there's always more demands for more sort of information or news.

[0:05:00.6] Is that really true or is that a perception from the media companies is basically because I actually personally like as a as a as a consumer of media I feel almost.

[0:05:11.4] Overwhelmed, like there's too much information.

[0:05:13.64] I can't add more news and other things into my life, which there seems to be some dissonance maybe between that statement and how I feel personally.

[0:05:26.2] So what do you think?

[0:05:28] Like what's happening here philosophically, there doesn't need to be news at all, but the industry does depend on, it's the product that they sell.

[0:05:39.28] So back when there was just advertising driven, then it was even more transparent because the more volume you have, the more advertising you can sell.

[0:05:48.4] So there is there.

[0:05:49.2] That still is a dynamic, right?

[0:05:50.56] You have to have a full newspaper every day to sell advertisements against it.

[0:05:53.76] So you need enough news to fill it.

[0:05:55.72] And do you really think every day has exactly, you know, 24 folded pages worth of news?

[0:06:00.6] That's not reality.

[0:06:02.96] So that I think is is an economic truth.

[0:06:06.76] And then there's just a psychology where if if you are stationary for a while as an editor or reporter, you die, You're like a shark, right?

[0:06:14.6] You can't.

[0:06:15.16] Nobody remembers that cool story you wrote six months ago.

[0:06:19.72] So yes, consumers don't necessarily want more news.

[0:06:23.16] It's not consumer driven, it's business model driven.

[0:06:27.16] And if you're publishing A newsletter every day, it's the same thing.

[0:06:31.08] You need something new to talk about, and it needs to be energetic and interesting enough to to feel like real news.

[0:06:38] Makes sense.

[0:06:38.52] Makes sense.

[0:06:38.88] Yeah.

[0:06:39] It makes sense that it's the product side.

[0:06:40.48] And the more products you have, the more exposure you have, the more right Do we need innovation?

[0:06:45.2] I mean, some of the innovation we absolutely do.

[0:06:47.4] But a lot of like new products probably have a similar dynamic.

[0:06:51] I'm speculating new widgets don't always have a, yeah, a demand, but they, they sometimes find it anyway.

[0:06:58.8] All right, Way #1, they write about you.

[0:07:03.16] Here's Walt Mossberg, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates hanging out on stage.

[0:07:10.24] So your job for them to write about you is to give them what they want or what do they want.

[0:07:18.68] The media needs stories that are original, unique and exciting.

[0:07:22.52] A story about your breakfast is not a story.

[0:07:25.88] They need something that seems to rise above the ordinary.

[0:07:30.4] They always need real people who relate to the news or the big narrative at the moment.

[0:07:35.28] What I mean by that, well, let's say you are, it depends on your niche.

[0:07:41.64] If you're in business, let's say about a week ago there was a lot of demand for Sam Bankman freed related news.

[0:07:50.16] So if you are a person who happened to be in Bahamas at the same times as him, that's your opportunity and your moment.

[0:07:57.04] They need a real person who knows something about the subject that's going on right now.

[0:08:00.72] And there's always a news cycle right now, and the reporters are always looking for people they can talk to with half that real perspective.

[0:08:07.6] They need experts, people who are seen as credible on those news stories.

[0:08:13.48] They need people who are interesting.

[0:08:15.04] So the more interesting things you have to say, the better.

[0:08:17.68] If you're an expert who always gives dull quotes, I won't call you back.

[0:08:22.24] Visuals are essential.

[0:08:23.64] If you have a story that is about an earthquake but there are no pictures, it's not 110th as interesting as A story about an earthquake that has a picture of what happened.

[0:08:33.4] So remembering that visual element is a really important thing.

[0:08:37.24] And not just social media but for actual media too.

[0:08:39.24] And then ask yourself when thinking about do I have something that's relevant to the news or to the media?

[0:08:46.4] Who cares?

[0:08:47.12] Would anyone else find this interesting or significant outside of my circle of friends and family?

[0:08:57.36] Some things to know broadly about the media and how it works.

[0:09:02.52] Media aren't for you or against you.

[0:09:04.32] They are looking for interesting and informative topics that fit the format of their program.

[0:09:09.88] This is a lesson my mom gave me a long time ago, and it applies to life, but it applies to media especially.

[0:09:15.04] It's not about you, it's about them.

[0:09:17.44] So if it's why does everybody hate Elon Musk?

[0:09:20] Well, it's about the reporters having their prestige on Twitter taken away and their feel that they control the narrative on Twitter taken away.

[0:09:27.28] So they hate Elon Musk, even though it's.

[0:09:28.56] Do they really hate the person of Elon Musk now?

[0:09:30.36] I don't think anything's changed.

[0:09:31.96] He was a symbol before and he's a symbol now.

[0:09:34.12] So that's just to say they aren't really about you.

[0:09:37.48] You need to figure out how you fit into their platform and their format.

[0:09:41.16] If you want to be on Joe Rogan, you need to be the kind of person that talks for an hour with Joe Rogan over cigars and booze.

[0:09:50.36] Or you know, he has a format and he's not gonna put somebody in a tie and a PowerPoint up there because that's not his format.

[0:09:56.48] So that's what we mean when we think about format.

[0:09:58.2] You have to suit what they actually do and what's news.

[0:10:01.56] One day is not news the next day.

[0:10:04.36] There is a really strong time element to anything in the media.

[0:10:08.64] You will have a moment when you have an opinion and perspective that matters, and then that moment will pass.

[0:10:16.04] Editors and reporters and podcast hosts tend to distrust blatant self promoters.

[0:10:22.12] There are exceptions, but you want to come across as somebody who's got an actual contribution to make, not just looking to get some attention.

[0:10:32.52] Editors decide what makes the news.

[0:10:34.72] So the editors of the people you probably don't know of or see, I used to be one of them.

[0:10:40.6] They ultimately make the decision, what's their job?

[0:10:43.48] Will they edit the stories that come in?

[0:10:44.76] And they tell the reporters, this is the news that we need to report today.

[0:10:47.68] Not that, And the reporters will bring stories, but sometimes they'll get shot down.

[0:10:51.24] That's the editor's role.

[0:10:52.92] And then most reporters have no background on stories they cover.

[0:10:55.96] That's just a reality.

[0:10:57.44] There's no value statement on that because your audience is also a generalist.

[0:11:02.56] So your audience needs somebody who's like them to ask those obvious questions.

[0:11:06.56] You wouldn't want a crypto specialist writing a crypto story for me because I don't know enough about it.

[0:11:12.44] For that to be relevant, you need somebody who's a generalist.

[0:11:18.12] OK, so how do you meet those those needs when these are broad strategies and we'll get into some specific tactics later on?

[0:11:26.88] How to package yourself, be short and simple, quotable.

[0:11:32.08] So this is, this is if you're actually on a podcast or if you're in an interview setting or if you're talking to anybody who you think is in this category of people with a really big audience.

[0:11:41.56] What what makes you stand out as desirable being quotable?

[0:11:47.6] We don't normally talk in quotations and you can tell when somebody has a lot of practice on TV or in interview settings because they speak in these well turned phrases that end and most of us trail on.

[0:11:58.88] It takes practice, but realize that you have to be speaking in these discreet chunks that can be quoted.

[0:12:05.28] Be positive, candid and confident.

[0:12:07.28] Show your conviction about whatever you're talking about.

[0:12:10.16] Be specific.

[0:12:12.36] Use the name of your book.

[0:12:14.2] Use facts about your business.

[0:12:15.84] Use examples that are vivid and colorful, from your journey from a humble village to your glorious new life.

[0:12:23.84] Use analogies.

[0:12:24.6] All of these things are general practices for for speaking well, and they're very, very important for any kind of interview medium.

[0:12:31.56] Be right, Don't lie or mislead.

[0:12:33.24] That's always going to take you down a very bad path.

[0:12:36.56] Be human.

[0:12:39.16] Being likable and open and concerned about whatever's going on in the world is always appealing.

[0:12:45.6] Telling stories, avoiding the feeling of a lecture where you're educating.

[0:12:53.69] Somebody is always a good idea and keep your answers short.

[0:12:59.77] Again, pulling back at a high level, what?

[0:13:02.85] What does the media feature?

[0:13:04.05] What are the things?

[0:13:04.69] What are the elements of a story that would catch the eye of somebody like me 10 years ago and I'll be reporting on this stuff for five years ago.

[0:13:13.85] Conflict and drama.

[0:13:16.29] Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg talking about having a fight.

[0:13:22.64] How is that news?

[0:13:24.12] They didn't actually fight.

[0:13:25.12] Nothing actually happened.

[0:13:26.44] But it's news because there's conflict and there's drama.

[0:13:28.56] And I think I saw in the Wall Street Journal, which I read every day, it's great paper.

[0:13:31] My my wife works for it.

[0:13:33.68] It's because it's conflict and drama between two people who everybody knows about.

[0:13:37.76] That's a story.

[0:13:39.36] And that that applies across the board.

[0:13:41.28] If it's boring, it's not going to be a story.

[0:13:43.2] And this is something in China that where I was reporter, the the government didn't really understand.

[0:13:47.68] They liked things to be as boring as possible, which meant foreign reporters were always writing something different from what the government thought was important.

[0:13:54.68] To write about, timeliness, it has to be new.

[0:13:58.84] What you did three weeks ago, three months ago, Not news.

[0:14:04.28] Surprise, Some departure from the norm.

[0:14:08.48] All right, so so Daniel Vasalo decides to wear a wig, maybe in some sector of, like, start up Twitter.

[0:14:16.28] That's news.

[0:14:16.84] And we talk about it, right?

[0:14:17.88] It's surprising.

[0:14:18.4] It's a different thing.

[0:14:20.96] Sorry for that example today, but you know it's it's a change.

[0:14:23.52] That's that's what's important is.

[0:14:24.68] So it's just it's the same as yesterday.

[0:14:26.12] That's not news.

[0:14:26.68] It's something that is a departure.

[0:14:29.12] Education news is often made out of what do we need to know about COVID-19?

[0:14:33.96] OK, there's a new story.

[0:14:35.08] So if it's a complicated subject there's an opportunity for experts to offer a perspective prominence.

[0:14:42.88] This is the Elon Musk example.

[0:14:44.08] Again, events and even trivial things like, let's say that the president stumbles, OK, I mean, you argue whether or not it's trivial, but that's a very prominent person doing something pretty normal that becomes news, an impact.

[0:15:00.44] If it affects a large number of people, you know, if it's if there's a problem in my small town in Pennsylvania, not going to be that, not going to be important news.

[0:15:07.12] If there's a problem that is affecting all of Africa, that is going to be news.

[0:15:12.92] Great pictures and sounds and then human interest.

[0:15:14.56] So something that's if you have a story about situations that are humorous like you, I don't know, a baby rode a dolphin on the beach, that could be turned into a news story because it's humorous, it's cute, it's mysterious.

[0:15:29.16] There's something personal about it.

[0:15:31.24] Those are especially in local news stories.

[0:15:39.04] All right, last for this section on how to get people to write about you, and this is at A at.

[0:15:43.32] Again, at a high level you have to be noticed.

[0:15:46.96] And this means actually over time building some awareness of who the media are in your niche.

[0:15:55.6] And that's an important practical piece of advice and take away for anybody here is figure out what your niche is.

[0:16:03.76] Hopefully you already know if you're on social media or if you just are running a business, you have an idea of what your your niche is.

[0:16:11] Who are the writers, Reporters, editors, YouTube hosts who are most influential in your niche?

[0:16:17.24] You need to know who those people are, and I'd recommend actually watching them and consuming that content so you understand what it is they feature.

[0:16:25.04] What are the big narratives right now, and how do you fit into that picture then?

[0:16:29.52] If there are opportunities, especially on Twitter, I would recommend starting to interact with them in very meaningful ways.

[0:16:38.6] Liking posts and commenting on posts and adding value is always a good idea with people you actually admire, #2 is right on the news of your niche.

[0:16:50.24] You may not be in the habit of this, but once you've actually learned what those stories are that are being talked about every day, start to form an opinion about them.

[0:16:58.24] Start to talk about them, talk about them, write about them.

[0:17:01.24] And that is a way to inform the world that you actually have a perspective that's relevant to these big stories.

[0:17:06] You're not going to be featured in a new story if you've never talked about that story before.

[0:17:11.68] Do you have experience that's relevant?

[0:17:13.88] These are the kinds of things to to think about #3.

[0:17:17.96] Having a dramatic or controversial take, if you actually believe it is a a good way to get featured or quoted if you're not a super famous person.

[0:17:26.84] My wife, as I mentioned, is a reporter.

[0:17:29.4] She often uses Twitter to try and find people who are talking about what's going on.

[0:17:33.8] So if it's AI in the workplace, she she did a story about how people on calls like this will sometimes find they're mostly in a room with note taking robots and it's very unnerving and creepy.

[0:17:48.56] Well, to find material to tell that story, she's searching for people who were talking about I was in a meeting with an AI robot and it freaked me out or just mentioning it, and then she'll follow up and talk with them.

[0:18:01.08] That means you need to leave a You need to actually leave a trail of talking about these big topics, AI and things that might be of interest to to media.

[0:18:10.84] And having a take that's interesting is going to make you that much more desirable to feature #4.

[0:18:15.52] Draw upon your real world experience.

[0:18:18.16] If you have something of value in your background to comment on Sam Bankman, Freed or news out of China, whatever it might be, that's that makes you extra valuable as a source.

[0:18:31] I don't know what I hit.

[0:18:34.68] Ben, a quick question.

[0:18:36.24] How likely do you think this is?

[0:18:38.44] To happen for somebody following these steps like having a niche like they have a controversial take sort of they follow some influential people and they they they they know what they're talking about.

[0:18:52.12] Is it are we talking it is in the in the realm of highly likely the lie that you get written about if you're just a normal person or is it like a 1% chance type of odds it's a 1% chance to get in New York Times or Wall Street Journal.

[0:19:11.84] There's a 0% chance if you're not visible on any of these subjects.

[0:19:15] But for something what what I and I appreciate the question cause yeah that's why would we be talking about it if it was no more than 1% chance.

[0:19:22.88] There's a lot more media right now than that.

[0:19:25.12] And if you think about media again as those really active and influential and important Twitter accounts or YouTube channels who are writing that stuff, a quote, tweet of your opinion on a subject brings you to that audience.

[0:19:40] They're looking for news every day.

[0:19:41.56] They're looking for people talking about the big news of the day that they can interact with and share.

[0:19:47.12] So the theory that I've seen work and I would recommend here is if you want to be pulled into these big conversations as seen as relevant, it's not that hard to to set yourself up for success.

[0:20:00.88] But understand that there are different layers of the ecosystem, you know based on size where you're going to want to start and work your way up.

[0:20:08.32] So yes, I think it's it's entirely possible, especially on a platform like Twitter where it's flat and you can interact with with big accounts and through that way over time get invited onto podcasts and things like that.

[0:20:22] So yes, purely on the basis of your opinion, it's hard to do, but it's not impossible within these kind of individual media brands.

[0:20:31.32] And then as your profile grows it, it becomes easier because once you have a track record, everybody sees, oh, you have an opinion on X or you have a record talking about this subject.

[0:20:41] And therefore, I want to talk to you again about it.

[0:20:43.36] Yeah, yeah.

[0:20:44.04] Success brings more success, as we'd like to say here.

[0:20:47.68] Yeah, yeah.

[0:20:48.68] And I've been in that position too.

[0:20:49.88] How do I, if I'm assigned to, write about?

[0:20:52.04] So I was a China economic supporter.

[0:20:54.76] I developed my own sources.

[0:20:56.32] But something comes out about coal, and I haven't written about coal very often.

[0:20:59.84] I'm going to go read the Reuters story about coal and see who they quoted.

[0:21:03.36] OK.

[0:21:03.6] There's a professor at this university.

[0:21:05.16] OK.

[0:21:05.28] He didn't pick up the phone.

[0:21:06.52] Who's another professor who's ever written about coal?

[0:21:08.36] You know, it's this is a one small example of how it works.

[0:21:12.92] But if you have a track record of speaking about something, it's going to be so much easier to get invited again.

[0:21:19.08] Yep, last two tactics which are actually pretty big but for entrepreneurs like this audience here, they're not crazy.

[0:21:28.96] One is to create an event and 2nd is to be known for a project business book.

[0:21:34.36] So if you want to get attention again at the the smaller scale of media, what is it that you do that can become a when I say virtual event, I mean events don't have to be anything more than you declaring you are doing X on this day that that actually is an event.

[0:21:54.68] What is it?

[0:21:55] What is a press conference?

[0:21:56.56] Why do people write about, you know launches?

[0:21:58.52] It's just because somebody chose a launch day, released a a document online and suddenly it's like you know and everybody talks about a product being released that day.

[0:22:07.64] Nothing really changed except somebody declared it an event.

[0:22:11.68] So when I say create an event, think about in your business, are there moments that you can carve out as specific milestones that you want to tell the world about and you can build up to.

[0:22:23.76] Doesn't mean that people are going to necessarily write about it, but it it creates an opportunity to talk about where it says, OK, so this this guy who's got a an interesting agency that he's launching, he's just developed a new methodology, product, process, whatever it might be that he's launching.

[0:22:40.64] So an event is, is what I mean by that is you create a moment in time where you're doing something and that is a an opportunity to create a conversation last be known for project business or book.

[0:22:54.2] Obviously if you've written a book or sold a business or two that is part of your your story that you want to be telling people about very often because it it makes you more of a desirable person to feature.

[0:23:06.84] OK we're going to move on to the next section.

[0:23:11.2] Now ignore this next slide which is out of place.

[0:23:14.36] OK.

[0:23:15.4] So pulling neck, you had asked about this Daniel, and you have to, you have to be opportunistic about it.

[0:23:24.12] And if you take away only a few things from this lesson today, I would say be aware of the news and be aware of your possible relationship to it.

[0:23:34.2] Because I don't know if you would want to do this, Daniel, but you worked at Amazon, right?

[0:23:39.32] You have certain experiences there, and if you're able to talk about them, you've talked about some of them.

[0:23:43.92] When big news comes out about what Bezos is doing, Bezos is moving to Miami.

[0:23:49.72] You may have an opportunity in that news cycle, as we call it, the new cycle, to write a long thread or a little long tweet about your experience with him in Seattle and how he always hated it and it was very clear or whatever it is, right?

[0:24:03.68] This is this is a moment that will come and go, and knowing that you have an interest in sharing your story when that moment comes is really helpful to seize that opportunity.

[0:24:15.24] So that means.

[0:24:16.16] In fact, Ben, if I can offer like an anecdote.

[0:24:18.52] I got interviewed once with the New York Times, in fact by a journalist when there was like a big thing about AWS sort of copying their customers.

[0:24:28.76] Like this guy wrote a book and I don't even remember his name but it was quite quite a popular article and the the journalist interviewed me on the phone and.

[0:24:37.92] I was mentioned there.

[0:24:38.6] I I I mean, I don't necessarily think this is me getting featured.

[0:24:42.76] I was just a statement in an article.

[0:24:45.48] But it came basically from like what you said, like I had written on Twitter and that I placed it, that I worked at Amazon.

[0:24:52.68] I think I shown that I was transparent and shared my opinion.

[0:24:56.76] And presumably, the journalist said, oh, there's a guy that probably doesn't won't hold back speaking about this topic, right?

[0:25:05.64] So yeah.

[0:25:06.32] Incidentally, a good example because it happened, Absolutely.

[0:25:12.08] So yeah, you can't force it or cook it up out of thin air.

[0:25:14.52] You have to watch the environment, which is what this guy's doing, and when your moment comes, you wait until the lightning strikes.

[0:25:20.84] So you have to position yourself for these opportunities, which is what I was recommending with some of these positioning strategies, knowing the news, taking a position on the news, pulling your background into it because that will that will create opportunities like what Daniel just talked about when somebody.

[0:25:38.24] And it's not going to be that necessarily the New York Times, but any media appearance that you have builds your credibility and will help your business just by virtue of getting your name out to a very new audience.

[0:25:51.52] Of course you can't control the storms, so you need to, you need to just put yourself in the right position at the right time, OK.

[0:25:59.56] How do you know how well you stack up as a potential subject in the media, whether it's somebody writing or being featured?

[0:26:09.2] This is a shorthand.

[0:26:10.28] I create acronyms to help myself and the Nova.

[0:26:12.8] The Nova score is what I have called this.

[0:26:16.52] It stands for newsiness or Novelty, Originality, Visibility and Authority.

[0:26:25.32] It's an equation you can think about and you want to just attend to these ideas even if you're not interested in necessarily being featured in a big splashy profile.

[0:26:36.28] All of these will help your public reputation if you are aware of them and think carefully about how to improve them.

[0:26:45.6] All right so newsiness, It is important to know what is new and it's sounds sounds incredibly obvious but the the necessity of of actually paying attention to to what's happening right now if you want to be featured in the media is as I said very important in your niche most of all.

[0:27:12.36] And if you're somebody who's sitting outside the media and don't consume anything in it, that's great from a personal, personal hygiene standpoint but it's not going to position you, position you well.

[0:27:25.72] So the score for N is simply, are you talking about things that are new?

[0:27:31.2] Are you talking about things that are novel?

[0:27:33.2] Are you somebody who has a position or an involvement?

[0:27:37.36] Are you relevant to things that are new right now?

[0:27:39.04] So if you look at these pictures, I just took the screenshot from I think last night, and this is from the business page in the Wall Street Journal.

[0:27:46.44] Here's a sample of what is in the news, What is the news?

[0:27:49.52] Here you go.

[0:27:50.04] Right.

[0:27:50.52] So what of these story?

[0:27:51.72] This is an exercise that we'll come back to at the end.

[0:27:56.24] Look at each of these headlines and think whether there is any relationship to you.

[0:28:00.24] Probably not, but that's that's kind of the exercise.

[0:28:03.84] Hollywood actors reach agreement with studios streamers to end strike.

[0:28:06.84] Well, if you have any experience in the entertainment world or with contracting for for writing, OK, you know that could be one.

[0:28:15.52] There's a flaming electric vehicle.

[0:28:17.64] So E VS in the news, the CEO just bet $1,000,000 on herself.

[0:28:22.88] Sounds like something about an executive a big investment that Daniel could dunk on this saying that it's not a small bet, right.

[0:28:31.96] So you start applying this, equate this algorithm of you overlaid onto what you're seeing here.

[0:28:38.12] You don't necessarily need to read any of these stories, but you need to know kind of what the the landscape is.

[0:28:42.32] Disney Disney's kind of a dumpster fire right now and we all might have an opinion on on that.

[0:28:48.04] You may have some experience that's relevant to that.

[0:28:51.16] I think you get the idea.

[0:28:53.12] There's always a a way to take a story and then find something adjacent to it.

[0:28:57.56] So my business partner and the author, Jeff Kane, he just recently went to Israel to report on the news.

[0:29:04.6] He didn't want to go there and try and report on the war.

[0:29:07.76] He's not a war correspondent.

[0:29:08.76] He doesn't have the approvals to go on the front lines and that was in his interest anyway.

[0:29:14.36] He's a tech reporter and he went there to talk about the story hasn't yet come out.

[0:29:18.12] Should come out soon about the Iron Dome and how Israel's reliance on technological self-defense systems seems to have failed.

[0:29:33.43] And yet there's this great faith in it.

[0:29:35.07] OK, why am I giving this example?

[0:29:36.83] It's not the straightforward story about this terrible conflict right now.

[0:29:40.31] It's a story.

[0:29:40.87] About something he knows that has a relationship to it.

[0:29:46.55] The second component of why and how you get featured the the Nova score is originality.

[0:29:56.4] I put a picture of Adam Neumann here just because he's he's in the news now too.

[0:30:00.04] He's still a billionaire even though we work, it's just belly up.

[0:30:04.2] You want to be the first.

[0:30:06.76] So originality we often think of it as you're really creative, you're really innovative.

[0:30:11.44] All that is true, but literally means original origin first.

[0:30:16.08] So thinking about being the first to do something or first to say something is what I'd recommend in thinking about being original.

[0:30:25.28] Just embrace the idea of being first to do something.

[0:30:28.96] So where are the stories where you're an expert and can you give a make a an original statement on be the first person to say X the first person to offer this particular part of your background?

[0:30:43.08] That's that's important because if anybody, if you have a an opinion or perspective or experience that's valuable, you want to be there early as opposed to oh, you're the 10th person who suddenly has seen an opportunity to talk about oh, you know I knew we work with the dumpster fire from the time I went there and the beer, you know the beer was ridiculously expect whatever it is you can the same story heard the 10th time has a lot less value than the story heard the first time.

[0:31:09.84] So originality is really a matter of primacy.

[0:31:13.52] So if you feel like you're going out on a limb, you're the first person to do something, that's the right feeling.

[0:31:17.6] That's that's going to make you seem like a leader, a thought leader, and more desirable to be featured and shared.

[0:31:26.76] One point on this too, being original can also just be taking something old and forgotten, making it new.

[0:31:36.04] Not everything needs to be brand new, but if everybody's already talking about it, that's not going to be original.

[0:31:42.36] Try to find opportunities to to be the first to to bring something to light.

[0:31:51.92] the V here is for visibility and you need to work on your visibility, which means networking with high profile people.

[0:31:57.96] Subject of a different course I've given here which I was delighted to share a couple months ago.

[0:32:07.48] If you're talking to yourself in an empty room, you're not going to be known for your ideas or your experience.

[0:32:15.2] You need to have distribution and one way to shortcut this, which I've highlighted David Perrell here as somebody who I think has done this extremely well, is to associate yourself with larger brands or people networking with high profile people to get that visibility.

[0:32:35.2] And that's that's ultimately what media exposure is going to get you to.

[0:32:38.8] But in this case, he has helped to build his profile, David Perrell, by interviewing really famous people and associating with famous people such that eventually he starts to get some of their associated prestige.

[0:32:52.56] Marc Andreessen, very well known investor is on his podcast here and he's done this with with a number of different speakers.

[0:33:01.04] So visibility is a reminder to keep building your own audience and do that by reaching to reaching the people and platforms that can help you grow.

[0:33:11.92] A quick question again, Ben, if you don't mind.

[0:33:14.36] Like for example, this.

[0:33:15.24] Yeah, I'm not looking at the chat.

[0:33:16.2] I'm sorry if I'm missing anything.

[0:33:17.32] No, no, no worries.

[0:33:18.32] I'll take a, I'll keep an eye on the chat here, but so this is a good example because because I don't think Mark and Ziessen or anything in particular was for example new or recent, right.

[0:33:33.6] So this was like if we look at David Pedell as a media.

[0:33:37.64] Person, right.

[0:33:40.08] It seems somewhat random in the timeline of events to have Mike and this in there like so is this is like all the things you told us you mentioned about like like they're not all required rights to sort of be featured on the media.

[0:33:57.32] But if you just happen to be to to be connected, like to David parallel, you still have a good chance just because you're visible.

[0:34:04.84] And in that case, you don't need necessarily to have something recent to say or something relevant to to the current events.

[0:34:13] Yes, exactly.

[0:34:13.8] And I think the reason that Mark was invited on this is because he is so visible.

[0:34:19.4] So it was a David Perrell gained something by associating with somebody who Mark is always writing.

[0:34:27.24] Mark is always putting an opinion out there.

[0:34:28.72] Mark is always good at commanding some piece of the conversation, even though if he's not really doing anything in the news per SE.

[0:34:38] And so for that reason it feels like he has something fresh to say, right?

[0:34:41] You wouldn't talk if he hadn't posted anything in six years on his Twitter account.

[0:34:45.72] You probably wouldn't think to invite Marc Andreessen.

[0:34:48.48] I'm going to show even though he's a really famous guy in a, you know, small sense in a certain universe.

[0:34:55.6] So in my mind, it brings brings that point home too.

[0:35:00.56] Sorry, sorry for interrupting.

[0:35:02.12] I thought you were done and we had a couple of questions in the chat.

[0:35:05.12] So if you don't mind we can go to them like Asylum is asking.

[0:35:08.64] And actually I think this is something that you covered in your in your other class, but maybe you can give us a quick a quick take.

[0:35:15.52] How do you get into the conversation with these people?

[0:35:18.72] Do you just call D mail them?

[0:35:20.04] Would they work?

[0:35:20.88] Like, presumably, believe David Patel doesn't know about you and you try to DM him.

[0:35:26.72] It's not like you're going to get on his podcast to my writer.

[0:35:29.76] What?

[0:35:30.24] What do you think?

[0:35:31.08] And again, like you, you talk to us about this for for an hour last time, but maybe you have a a shorter answer to say that here.

[0:35:39.92] Yeah, sure, happy.

[0:35:42.28] How would you get to know David Perrell if you have no connection to him now?

[0:35:47.04] Start by reading his stuff, finding opportunities to comment and add value onto his Twitter account.

[0:35:53.88] That's I think the best way in his case to reach him eventually.

[0:35:59.76] If you do this, not spamming him, but only say something when you have something viable to say and try to say it quickly so that he is more likely to see it cuz he does have a very active community around him.

[0:36:10.6] When you get a like or a comment back, that means you're getting somewhere.

[0:36:15.92] And I wouldn't DM him on the first like, but take the data that he's giving you.

[0:36:22.28] If you get a like or a comment and start to write on topics that you think David Perel and his community of people that he interacts with care about, you can analyze his following or you can just kind of watch what he likes.

[0:36:37.4] If you use a tool called I think it's Fetica now and Black Magic, those are two that I use.

[0:36:42.92] You can see who does he interact with the most.

[0:36:46] So first, just that first one, engage with his content and try over time to get a positive response from him.

[0:36:54.48] So, you know, he sees you to get to know his friends, by which I mean do the same thing with his group of people he interacts with a lot.

[0:37:04.16] Who is he commenting on?

[0:37:05.68] If it's Mark Andreessen, OK, you can post on him, but I'm thinking more the smaller accounts that he's friendly with that he talks to occasionally he comments on stuff of mine.

[0:37:15.88] I wouldn't reckon you're not going to take any shortcuts by writing on my stuff.

[0:37:20.08] Well you're welcome to but that's what I mean is accounts of a smaller profile who he's engaging with.

[0:37:26.16] So you start to be seen in his world and those two things will get you much more visible to him.

[0:37:32.32] And I think set a threshold.

[0:37:34.48] I don't know if you get 3 likes or something.

[0:37:35.96] After the third one sign him Adm and just say hey I really appreciate your your engaging with my content.

[0:37:40.92] I've always been a fan just wanted to let you know that I appreciate what you do.

[0:37:44.92] That's it.

[0:37:45.44] OK.

[0:37:45.68] The the method is pretty simple, just be generous and kind and say a nice thing and there's ask for nothing.

[0:37:53.36] That's about as clear a methodology I can I can recommend for getting to be on the radar of these people.

[0:38:00] And more often than that you'll get a a thumbs up or a nice response even from very very high profile busy people.

[0:38:05.08] And from then on you have something to build on.

[0:38:08.2] You know, he's actually got an impression of you, and I would recommend writing on themes that he cares about because he's probably going to be paying attention.

[0:38:16.96] Makes sense, makes sense.

[0:38:17.96] Thanks Ben.

[0:38:18.52] One one final question before before continue Michelle is asking, I think.

[0:38:21.84] I think an interesting question like does having a bigger audience help?

[0:38:25.44] When a journalist is looking for someone, as in doesn't lend to credibility, do you think it matters when somebody's letting something about you?

[0:38:37.68] It's a really interesting question.

[0:38:39.84] On the one hand, if you are the subject of a story, and this is not relevant for for most people in the world, if you're the subject of a story, sure.

[0:38:49.84] If you have 5 million followers, OK, well then that conveys a certain relevance.

[0:38:56.28] But that doesn't apply for less than that.

[0:38:58.84] I'd say for less than that, it doesn't really matter what your following is, and it can actually cause some concern that you're not a real person, right?

[0:39:10.28] So if you're if you're seen as an influencer, media are actually conventional mainstream media or more skeptical of you.

[0:39:16.72] They don't want to get your opinion on something because they know you are.

[0:39:20.28] Post shutting.

[0:39:21.08] Yeah.

[0:39:21.32] Yeah, exactly.

[0:39:21.96] Yeah, Yeah.

[0:39:22.36] Yeah.

[0:39:22.64] You're kind of a competitor in a way.

[0:39:24.04] Yeah, so.

[0:39:25.4] So no, it doesn't.

[0:39:27.32] It doesn't actually help.

[0:39:28.52] If you're looking for a subject who's got an experience in the real world, you had a, you know, a subway story in New York.

[0:39:35.16] Whatever it is, it's much better if the person has a more normal sized following.

[0:39:40] But for example, like in this case, like with David Pedel, like Tuesday fit Pedel as an example.

[0:39:43.96] Like almost everyone he brings on, his podcasts are somewhat well known people.

[0:39:49.48] Right.

[0:39:49.68] And that seems maybe that's that's part of his selection criteria, so to speak, like his bar is, is, is it because he's in a different category than like in the traditional media, right.

[0:40:02.4] Or is it there's another dynamic at play there?

[0:40:06.4] Like, I would be very, very surprised if David pal, tomorrow bring somebody on his podcast with like 5 Twitter followers and we never knew about, right.

[0:40:14.44] I mean it might happen and maybe there's something in this thing, but I think.

[0:40:18.08] It would have.

[0:40:19.12] To be part of the story, right, it would have to be this guy, this, this girl wrote the best novel of the last 10 years in a shack in Montana, has five followers.

[0:40:32] You've never heard of him.

[0:40:32.72] But this is the story is I have found this person that doesn't, that nobody else knows about.

[0:40:37.84] So it's it doesn't mean it can't happen, but it has to be part of this story, if that makes sense.

[0:40:43.88] You have to be a a diamond in the rough kind of thing.

[0:40:47.88] So yeah, David Perella is that since he's writing about how I write and the methods of these writers that he's selecting, you have to reach that bar of being a really interesting writer in his criteria.

[0:41:00.2] But for a podcast, I was invited on a crypto podcast.

[0:41:03.76] I know nothing about crypto, but I had an opinion that was interesting to the host about media and I was focusing more on the negative side how manipulations and.

[0:41:16.48] Errors creep into the media.

[0:41:19.36] From my own experience, he was interested in that, and it's a small podcast, but I was invited on at a point when my following was quite a bit smaller than it is right now.

[0:41:31.08] That's one example where it doesn't particularly matter.

[0:41:33.04] It's because you have an interesting opinion, you have an interesting stance, your experience is relevant, and the following is kind of beside the point.

[0:41:40.6] So I find this often too.

[0:41:42.16] Somebody recommends a really great.

[0:41:44.6] Editor or chef and I'll look up what's their social media profile.

[0:41:48.76] You know they're not everybody has a great social media profile.

[0:41:51.76] So you're off world offline, not off world offline.

[0:41:55.2] Accomplishments can easily compensate.

[0:41:59.44] Makes sense.

[0:42:00.12] Makes sense?

[0:42:01.24] All right.

[0:42:02.36] I'll continue.

[0:42:06.6] Last category to work on building your building your profile is authority.

[0:42:13.32] But all the same, here the small bot in human form, you need to be seen as authoritative.

[0:42:20.88] What does that mean?

[0:42:22.72] I like words.

[0:42:23.36] Let's break down the word 1:00 is way to be an authority, is to literally be an author.

[0:42:28.76] Everybody's an author, but you can become an author.

[0:42:31.04] Keep that in mind.

[0:42:31.6] Authorities.

[0:42:32.2] Authors.

[0:42:33.08] This is why I'm in a ghost Writing business.

[0:42:35.44] For books too, is people who have great business experience still often need to establish their authority through something like a book.

[0:42:44.32] Aside from that, it means to have control.

[0:42:48.84] It means to have mastery.

[0:42:50.88] OK, it means owning something so that can be a set of knowledge.

[0:42:56.16] It can be distinct methods, it can be a process.

[0:43:00.92] So being an authority could be you have developed this particular method, this knowledge base you you own and control.

[0:43:11.56] Something and you were seen to do that.

[0:43:12.84] I know that just sounds abstract, but I I found it helpful to break this down myself and think about it for how it would apply to your particular business goals and needs, right?

[0:43:20.72] If you're newsletter person, what is it that you own?

[0:43:24.08] You own knowledge of how newsletters are scaled very quickly.

[0:43:28.52] You own knowledge of how to increase the click through rate by 10% through some simple methods.

[0:43:36] What's that knowledge or that method that you own?

[0:43:38.2] What?

[0:43:38.4] Why do I call this method the Nova method, right?

[0:43:40.44] I mean, it helps me to remember it.

[0:43:41.72] It's also I own that because it gives them authority.

[0:43:46.2] So Nassim Black Swan, absolutely genius.

[0:43:49.72] You're like he was probably wasn't the first person to talk about Black Swan.

[0:43:52.68] I'm sure.

[0:43:53] I'm sure he wasn't.

[0:43:54.08] But he has, through his brilliance, but also through his ability to do this, has created an incredible authority such that you talk about a Black Swan.

[0:44:03.88] You're talking about Nassim?

[0:44:05.52] He owns and controls that.

[0:44:06.72] So how else can you build up authority?

[0:44:09.64] You can borrow it from other places or brands.

[0:44:13.12] What do you mean, borrow it?

[0:44:14.88] Well, why do people say I graduated from Harvard?

[0:44:18.16] I, or in my case I was an editor at The Atlantic that has authority, that has brand, that has credibility.

[0:44:25.32] So you borrow wherever you can.

[0:44:27.52] And this is, there's nothing unsavory about it.

[0:44:29.24] You don't want to be.

[0:44:31.32] Ridiculous.

[0:44:31.8] But Daniel gets authority from your background at Amazon because that is an accomplishment.

[0:44:36.44] And Amazon has a very, very valuable brand.

[0:44:39.56] So think of those authoritative places and people that you associate with and how you can foreground them as a way to build your authority.

[0:44:46.8] This is why all startups, when they when they launch, who are their most prestigious board members or VCs?

[0:44:52.48] How did Sam Bankman, Freed and Elizabeth Holmes commit their frauds while they're bored?

[0:44:57.24] Had an Alan Greenspan or Henry Kissinger, whoever it is.

[0:45:01.68] They borrowed prestige and authority, so apply that to to your area, your, your content, everything that you're putting out there.

[0:45:11.04] Remember that having ownership, borrowed authority are ways to make yourself much, much more desirable and credible.

[0:45:20.12] They think getting featured in the media can give you a Toyota, right?

[0:45:23] So it's a bit of a circle here.

[0:45:25.88] That's exactly right.

[0:45:27.24] Yeah.

[0:45:27.8] It's it's actually to be like what?

[0:45:29.72] Did you actually do You stood on stage for 10 minutes like you have a Ted Talk and now you are exactly.

[0:45:37.28] Yeah.

[0:45:37.4] I think it it's sort of the session interests me more about this slide that I mean the authority part more than the attention because the attention probably, I mean how how much attention do you get from being featured in media.

[0:45:50.8] I mean it's, I'm sure it's something, but it's probably short lived.

[0:45:54.16] But the authority, it's something you can keep forever.

[0:45:56.28] You can list it on your site, you got featured on the on the New York Times or whatever I was going to say.

[0:46:01.4] Do you?

[0:46:01.6] Have that on your site because that's that's kind of ultimately one of the byproducts, one of the benefits.

[0:46:06.72] Yeah well I don't have anything but I should consider it.

[0:46:11.12] I I'm, I certainly when I see it as a consumer, I see it happening in me that I give this site more credibility just because I see featured on New York Times, CNN, you know and ABC whatever.

[0:46:28.76] This is also why.

[0:46:29.72] People try to rig the New York Times bestseller list and they do it pretty successfully.

[0:46:35.24] I've never done it.

[0:46:36.28] I don't know how to do it.

[0:46:37.88] I mean, there are certain bookstores you can do in New York.

[0:46:40.68] You can put this into place.

[0:46:42.6] But when you see something as a New York Times bestseller, even though I know it's riggable, I still recognize that that is a a piece of authority.

[0:46:52.64] That gives incredible status and you listen more, the same idea said by somebody who says I'm a New York Times best selling author and here's what authority is versus somebody who doesn't and tells you what authority is.

[0:47:04.4] You're not gonna give it the same weight.

[0:47:10.68] What's the next one?

[0:47:12.04] All right now.

[0:47:12.84] Let's go into the way too.

[0:47:13.84] Write about yourself.

[0:47:14.48] This is more accessible for for most of us getting started.

[0:47:20.76] This is developing your own thought leadership which means becoming known for your own views and putting your your views into print, audio, video world instead of waiting for people to come and interview you, you go out there and this of course is a very high profile example of this but I think Ray Dalio has actually made the Ray made Ray Dalio into Ray Dalio by by doing this he's gone out there put his ideas into the world and.

[0:47:46.6] Yes, he's a successful hedge fund manager, but he's he's got this aura because he's also written about himself, written about his ideas quite successfully.

[0:47:56.6] So the 1st way in a very straightforward traditional media way is to pitch yourself as a writer, pitch your own content to a place with a platform.

[0:48:06.44] What I mean by pitch, it's the same as like a pitching a business to investors or or to a client.

[0:48:11.8] You are selling your idea or perspective and.

[0:48:16.48] You can do this.

[0:48:17.08] I would recommend by starting with small media in your niche.

[0:48:22] It can be a sub stack, it can be any place that is looking for regular publications and in that in that routine you'd be surprised at how much need there is for people who can write well and have something interesting to say.

[0:48:38.48] So study with the editor or host features.

[0:48:40.92] What topics does he feature?

[0:48:41.8] What sort of guests?

[0:48:42.52] And if you can match them, make the pitch.

[0:48:45.04] So by be by being published, what does that get you?

[0:48:49.32] The same thing it gets me by saying I've been published in Rolling Stone, Esquire, The Atlantic.

[0:48:53.64] It's that bar of prestige and that and the audience that comes with it, the elements of a pitch.

[0:49:03.52] If you are writing for some publication, Fortune or Forbes, whatever it might be, identify the right person who's the editor of that particular section.

[0:49:11.96] Who's the producer of the show?

[0:49:13.04] Who actually makes a decision about what gets on and off find that person.

[0:49:15.92] It's not that hard.

[0:49:16.52] You look at a masthead or you look at a producer list and you start to figure out who is associated with that that Channel.

[0:49:24.16] Introduce yourself in an e-mail briefly.

[0:49:25.92] Sound normal.

[0:49:27.36] Hi, I'm Ben Carlson.

[0:49:30.48] I'm a writer and an entrepreneur.

[0:49:33] Highlight why you're impressive and relevant.

[0:49:35] I've been published in many places.

[0:49:37.12] I've, you know, found in an agency blah blah blah then.

[0:49:41.84] What is your offer to them?

[0:49:44.04] It's a headline and a description of what you would say it would A headline is basically like a tweet and something you'd say is, you know, two more, two or three more sentences that that fleshed out.

[0:49:56.44] I'm going to demonstrate in just the next slide what I mean by this.

[0:50:01.68] So a sample pitch.

[0:50:03.36] You want to be published in Fortune.

[0:50:05.8] You want to be featured on somebody's podcast?

[0:50:09.2] Here is a an e-mail you could you could borrow and edit if you would like.

[0:50:13.44] So hello editor.

[0:50:16.48] Hope you're doing well.

[0:50:17.52] My name's Ben.

[0:50:18.24] I'm the founder executive Bah Bah Bah former consultant I've spent my career teaching over.

[0:50:22.92] This is not about me, this is somebody else I've actually adapted it from.

[0:50:26.08] I've spent my career teaching over 100 companies to scale.

[0:50:28.48] I love this section in TechCrunch that you edit.

[0:50:32.12] I wanted to share an idea that might fit with your current coverage about this about growth companies.

[0:50:37.84] And as a former Seattle resident trying to find some personal connection here, I also enjoy your posts from the the the Seattle Bay Area.

[0:50:48.56] I still miss it.

[0:50:49.6] In any case, I'd be grateful for your feedback.

[0:50:51.2] Please let me know if you're interested or if there's anything else I can provide.

[0:50:53.56] In any case, wishing you all the best.

[0:50:54.8] Thanks.

[0:50:55.76] Your name.

[0:50:56.88] Nice e-mail, right?

[0:50:57.8] It doesn't doesn't strike you as somebody who's weird.

[0:51:00.68] We're asking for something.

[0:51:01.48] You might ignore it, but it's not going to give you a bad impression at all.

[0:51:04.56] OK, under that, there's your concept.

[0:51:08.44] This is the concept.

[0:51:09.48] I'd be happy to expand on it at the appropriate length.

[0:51:11.48] If you think it's a good fit, you're not dumping 1,000,000 words on somebody's inbox.

[0:51:15.48] This is really important for really anything, at least in my point of view.

[0:51:20.48] Let somebody opt in to get more.

[0:51:22.6] Leave them wanting more.

[0:51:23.56] Sorry about that.

[0:51:24.52] Let me just read this very quick pitch.

[0:51:27.16] This is what I would do as a freelance journalist.

[0:51:28.92] By the way, this is a pretty it's proven to work.

[0:51:31.6] I taught 150 startups how to scale.

[0:51:33.96] These are the three most common mistakes that founders make.

[0:51:37.36] Would you read that?

[0:51:38.16] So this exercise is writing a story that you would writing the headline for a story that you'd want to read where you actually have something to say.

[0:51:47.88] And this is one example of that.

[0:51:50.2] As everyone knows, funding is dried up for many companies in the current climate.

[0:51:52.88] That means it's more essential than ever for startups to avoid missteps, blah blah blah.

[0:51:57.92] OK?

[0:51:59.4] And because of my experience reaching and helping firms reach 8 figure annual revenue firms that bloopen Launchpad.

[0:52:06.96] I can tell you these are the common mistakes I see.

[0:52:13.4] There's no editor who wouldn't mind getting that e-mail, even though they might say no.

[0:52:16.04] So in that e-mail, which was adapted, the editor did decline it.

[0:52:19.68] It was taken somewhere else.

[0:52:21.56] But it's it got a very polite and good reply, encouraging for further communication down the road.

[0:52:28.16] More pitches the the the example this you just show this had been sort of this the steps or whatever like is this listical format is that something that you think works better like see common mistakes founders make is this I mean I've you know we we all see this a lot in in the media right it's it's the five things you shouldn't do and so and so forth you did you pick this example because it works really well or is it or is it just just just just an accident Basically my question is should we try to format whatever we want to write in a listical five things I learned things to attend things that led to my success so and so forth yeah and one weird slick the 7th one is 1 that you that will blow your mind.

[0:53:14.6] It's a good place to start.

[0:53:16.12] I'll put it that way because they're used so often that they've become cliches because people click on them.

[0:53:23.56] People are interested if you want to be a little more subtle saying.

[0:53:29.48] You want to leave a little mystery, So people want to find out more.

[0:53:32.12] And that's what the headline does.

[0:53:33.96] So if you promise a number, well, OK, let's see those.

[0:53:36.16] Let's see all three of those things, right.

[0:53:37.44] It gives you kind of a desire to find out.

[0:53:39.6] That's why listicles work.

[0:53:41.48] I think it's a perfectly good way to at least present an idea.

[0:53:48.08] The two examples you gave, not to pick on them.

[0:53:50.52] I wouldn't do them for, you know, 10 things that led to my success because I, the editor, don't care about you, right.

[0:53:57.36] I didn't ask you for this.

[0:53:58.72] Who are you?

[0:53:59.76] Tell me about the things that I don't care about.

[0:54:01.48] So my section right now is about startups and what's going on in VC land and how hard it is to get the funding.

[0:54:11.4] So talk about the things that I want to fund that that are already showing up in my feed.

[0:54:15.48] So it looks like the thing that's almost ready to publish, I just need to hire you to get that full story.

[0:54:22.04] That's what you're doing, is the reason it looks like a media headline.

[0:54:25.52] Because that's what you want it to look like.

[0:54:26.8] Because you want it to sound like something that is basically a ready, a ready made post for their channel.

[0:54:36.24] So if you're doing it for a podcast too how are they titled their podcast you say?

[0:54:39.72] I know I think I could be a great guest or I would love to share some perspective.

[0:54:43.32] If you're interested on for an episode like: then title it just like they title their episodes.

[0:54:49.56] Make it look just like the editor once said oh drag and drop, my job is done right?

[0:54:52.72] You're doing their job for them.

[0:54:53.84] That's what That's what it should feel like.

[0:54:55.52] Not creating work for them where it's like I have to help this guy figure out what we need.

[0:54:59.64] That sounds like work.

[0:55:00.36] I don't want to do that.

[0:55:02.76] That's that's why it's like sales is you're solving a problem for somebody.

[0:55:06.68] The problem is I need an article that's ready to go.

[0:55:09.28] I need a podcast guest who who knows what they're talking about.

[0:55:12.96] OK, the 2nd way to write about yourself.

[0:55:15.2] Press releases.

[0:55:16.92] Press release sounds like a very stodgy, boring term.

[0:55:20.2] And it and it is.

[0:55:21.16] But what is a press release?

[0:55:22] It's just an article about what you're doing, OK?

[0:55:25.08] So you have a business website.

[0:55:27.48] Anybody on this call might have one, or or if you don't, fine.

[0:55:30.4] But you have some channels you control.

[0:55:33.56] A press release tells the world Who, what, where?

[0:55:36.32] When?

[0:55:36.6] Why?

[0:55:39.28] When I launch this, the website for my agency in January, we're gonna have a press release.

[0:55:45.12] Where?

[0:55:45.52] When?

[0:55:45.68] Why?

[0:55:46.64] Who are we?

[0:55:47.28] What are we doing?

[0:55:48.6] Why are we doing it?

[0:55:49.56] And make it sound as exciting as possible.

[0:55:51.16] Include quotes about yourself.

[0:55:52.92] Make it look like an article and suddenly you'll find people will actually take from it.

[0:55:56.76] OK, this is something that journalists do but don't like to admit it.

[0:56:00.8] They get press releases in their e-mail inbox all the time, and they'll turn it into a story.

[0:56:05.8] They'll they'll take it.

[0:56:06.76] They'll, you know, grab a quote here and there and it makes their lives a lot easier.

[0:56:10.84] What is a press release?

[0:56:11.56] It's just an e-mail somebody wrote that looks kind of like an article, but it's very, very valuable.

[0:56:16.96] So, OK, that's why we're talking about press releases.

[0:56:19.36] Use numbers if you want people to talk about what you're doing.

[0:56:22.92] In media or just in general, use numbers.

[0:56:25.08] If Daniel launches Small Bets, 2 point O targeting 100 million in revenue per year.

[0:56:30.16] Oh holy shit.

[0:56:30.6] Now there's something to talk about, right?

[0:56:31.76] But he's launching small bets 2 point O.

[0:56:33.64] We're going to be really successful.

[0:56:35.52] It's just harder to to make it tangible.

[0:56:37.84] So use numbers.

[0:56:38.64] Think about that.

[0:56:39.16] Or set a target in X number of years.

[0:56:41.44] That kind of stuff really grabs people.

[0:56:45.08] You have to put the story you want into the water.

[0:56:47.6] You want people talking about the.

[0:56:49.92] Here's an example from.

[0:56:52.24] My job I do publicity for a prize.

[0:56:57.84] I was trying to think about how do we get interest for it.

[0:57:00.48] Well it is prestigious, so we start writing about the prestigious award.

[0:57:05.48] Guess what the media articles about the award were two, two weeks later when we were writing about it.

[0:57:10.24] The prestigious award it's you put the language in there that you would hope people will resonate with.

[0:57:16.52] OK, colorful quote attributed to you publish on your website and.

[0:57:21.44] For a relatively small fee, maybe 150 bucks, you can push it out on these news wires, which will actually deliver it to different media organizations, inboxes.

[0:57:30.6] They ignore a lot of them, but it goes out on Google News and it will be searchable so that your article is suddenly seen like anything else in the Internet.

[0:57:40] Describe yourself how you want to be described, found of the world's first firm devoted to pet astrology?

[0:57:45.2] That would be a pretty cool story, by the way.

[0:57:48.72] Moving on.

[0:57:51.88] OK, getting on podcast is the way to also put your put your voice out there.

[0:58:02.32] This is if you put into effect some into place some of the strategies I've said before.

[0:58:11.64] I'll just for that.

[0:58:14.04] This will result in some invitations on podcasts.

[0:58:19.24] Here are some tips to actually do a podcast appearance that it won't dwell on these too long because it might be more detail than you really need.

[0:58:26.56] Examples and anecdotes.

[0:58:28.08] I'm trying to tell you stories from my background.

[0:58:30.24] My wife pick on Danny, Daniel.

[0:58:33] So all of these things are examples and anecdotes that make it more tangible for you.

[0:58:37.64] Draw upon your depth of experience.

[0:58:41.76] Use stories above all.

[0:58:44.52] Don't just talk in abstractions.

[0:58:45.96] Modulate your voice.

[0:58:46.76] Go up and down.

[0:58:48.56] Hit right to the point.

[0:58:49.32] Watch out for umms and us Turn off your phone.

[0:58:52.44] That's gonna ring in the background.

[0:58:55.56] If you come onto a podcast, I encourage you to come back to this slide.

[0:59:01.32] All right.

[0:59:01.72] Recognizing that we don't have much time or no, we do have a little bit more.

[0:59:05.08] I'm gonna go through these tactics a little more quickly.

[0:59:10.56] All right.

[0:59:13.2] So in addition to writing a press release, there are other ways to create news.

[0:59:16.2] What I mean by create news.

[0:59:17.12] Well.

[0:59:17.88] Make something that can be turned into a news product for other people to talk about.

[0:59:23.68] Data.

[0:59:24.8] Create data.

[0:59:25.44] Don't just make up data, but run a survey.

[0:59:28.92] OK, you have your your audience.

[0:59:31.08] You have your you have small vets community.

[0:59:34.48] You have your clients ask them five questions that might be interesting to a broader public or in your sector.

[0:59:42.56] What do you what do you think about the new?

[0:59:46.92] Piece of Washington funding that's going to come up, the clean energy funding that's here, is it going to help your business or hurt your business?

[0:59:51.68] Is it?

[0:59:52.76] And anything that's relevant right now, you could turn it into a piece of data just by asking questions, other data that you can create, you know, it just depends on your business.

[1:00:04.08] Make an event.

[1:00:05.44] So events are newsworthy.

[1:00:07] So Daniel invites he invites Nassim to come and talk to the small bots bot.

[1:00:15.8] That's kind of newsworthy.

[1:00:16.8] That will get people to talk about it.

[1:00:18.04] I mean, of course Naseem is prominent, so that's one piece of it.

[1:00:20.28] But it's also creating this moment.

[1:00:23.24] So create a virtual create a virtual summit around why VC is full of crap or why people should not join Y Combinator that summit, even though it's just people on a Twitter spaces or a Zoom.

[1:00:36.16] Talking creates news and suddenly that can be talked about.

[1:00:41.2] Organize an action.

[1:00:42.56] Petitions.

[1:00:43.24] This is why organizations do petitions or letter writing campaigns.

[1:00:47.36] That organization is itself creating news.

[1:00:50.84] So if you have, if you have an organization or business that where that's relevant, you can think about that.

[1:00:56.96] Storing up controversy, I just mentioned it because it's something that people use.

[1:01:00.68] If you attack a larger enemy, somebody who really or an organization that stands against what your business does, attacking it, meaning you know, criticize what deserves to be criticized, is a way to generate news.

[1:01:13.64] That's that conflict and drama.

[1:01:16.76] Finally, creating a new organization or starting it start up dedicated to a problem is itself newsworthy.

[1:01:22.6] So just just think about these as ways to build your visibility if they're already on your menu of options.

[1:01:35.04] Second tactic serve as a source.

[1:01:38.12] So there's a an organization or other website called Help a Reporter Out HARORO that's under bullet point, Bullet point #4.

[1:01:49.32] This is a place where some reporters will actually go if they need.

[1:01:53.12] They're under deadline.

[1:01:54.2] This is one thing that is also important to remember.

[1:01:56.4] They have deadlines.

[1:01:58] I need somebody who knows organic chemistry who can tell me why this leak of hazardous waste is a danger to people 5-5 miles away.

[1:02:10.84] Help a reporter out.

[1:02:11.8] You put a post on.

[1:02:12.84] Help a reporter out making your request and people will reply to it.

[1:02:16.44] So if you register there you can make replies to reporters and that will increase your chance of being quoted saying Benjamin Carlson in Pennsylvania has this to say on a particular issue.

[1:02:29] If if they see you as worth including again thinking about a source.

[1:02:35.92] Just reflect in general I think on your on your story and expertise and your experience is always valuable.

[1:02:41.04] What?

[1:02:41.52] What do you have to bring that is different?

[1:02:44.32] And that could be where you're from, what kind of training you have, what kind of risks you've taken, other ways to serve as a source.

[1:02:53.6] We've mentioned before interacting with the people who run these media brands.

[1:03:00.8] Last one I'll mention is a tactic is pay to play.

[1:03:03.8] This is what PR agencies do as their bread and butter Forbes by the way.

[1:03:10.08] No offense to anybody who loves Forbes, it is basically become a content form run for pay to play.

[1:03:16.2] The brand of Forbes has been hollowed out and they just take a fee, they'll actually shop it around.

[1:03:22.36] So if you run a a business or something, they'll often say, do you want to be included on the Forbes list for this particular sub list of entrepreneurs who are located in Poughkeepsie?

[1:03:36.6] But you pay a little bit of money and you you get featured on it.

[1:03:38.72] And there's.

[1:03:39.44] I'm talking about it in a way that makes it sound bad.

[1:03:41.76] It's not bad.

[1:03:42.2] It's just one way to actually get featured.

[1:03:45] So places like Forbes, you can pay to promote an article or to get yourself featured sponsored content.

[1:03:52.84] If you have a business that is interested in being seen as a thought leader in a space on AI or cybersecurity, you can write an article and have it placed as sponsored content in some publication.

[1:04:08.96] Another more modern tactics, I'd say you can buy a spot in a newsletter or even an ad in a podcast which you know.

[1:04:17.92] These are relatively inexpensive and you can make it a promotion of you, your business.

[1:04:23.76] Why?

[1:04:23.96] You're newsworthy.

[1:04:25.88] Yeah.

[1:04:26.52] Do you have a ballpark of what type of spend is usually involved here?

[1:04:31.8] Is it 10s of thousands of dollars?

[1:04:34.16] Tons of thousands of dollars.

[1:04:36.68] So in my experience, sponsored content would be they they, they scale it kind of based on who they're dealing with.

[1:04:46.96] 5K to 10K to get an article placed depending on.

[1:04:49.88] Where?

[1:04:50.04] Even with the big, even with the big players.

[1:04:52.8] Like, even with the with Forbes and others, this is giving you guys one of my ideas that it's probably not going to work for most people's audience.

[1:05:03] Oldest magazine in America.

[1:05:04.4] Harper's still has some prestige with with certain audience, right up there with the Atlantic and New Yorker as old.

[1:05:12.24] Classic Magazines has the worst advertising in the world.

[1:05:16.24] It advertises like hats for for older people, whole page ads that are some random guy promoting his news service.

[1:05:26.28] You could easily buy a full page ad for, I don't know, a couple 100 bucks or a column in Harper's test out.

[1:05:32.88] Basically, if you if you have an ad budget, there are places that would be surprisingly cheap.

[1:05:39.56] And if you think about it strategically, you might get pretty good ROI, at least for awareness.

[1:05:44.96] So Harper's Yeah, you're probably not going to convert newsletter subscribers, but if you're trying to raise awareness with an academic highbrow audience, it's pretty, pretty good.

[1:05:56.08] Dollars spend a pretty good ROI on the dollar for newsletters.

[1:06:00.52] It varies and I think probably now that it's a little more of a mature business, people will ask for five figures, but that's on the upper end.

[1:06:10.12] If you're getting one, I've gotten podcast or newsletter placements for a couple 100 bucks and that's that's not bad.

[1:06:19.36] That's really not bad.

[1:06:19.96] It's a very engaged audience.

[1:06:21.44] And do you find you find these film?

[1:06:24.08] Are they easy to find?

[1:06:25.04] Like if I went to what I'd recommend it's sort of like real estate but we don't need to get into that go to the places that aren't thinking of selling.

[1:06:35.4] So what's your favorite newsletter and you don't see a ton of ads in it just write to the to the guy or the the gal who runs it and say I really love your newsletter.

[1:06:44.16] I I think your audience is an audience that I would love to reach would can can I give you some money for an ad.

[1:06:50.56] You know if you're just offering somebody money out of the blue and or you ask you know what what would the rate be just for a a small promotion in a couple weeks newsletter you might be surprised.

[1:07:02.12] It's worth at least asking especially for people who aren't relying on it as their main revenue.

[1:07:07.52] It's just extra money for them.

[1:07:08.72] They haven't established a really sophisticated price structure.

[1:07:14.84] Makes sense.

[1:07:15.24] All right, let's go to.

[1:07:22.36] These are the last five slides just to preview.

[1:07:25.84] Guys, I know you've been patient going through all the material.

[1:07:29.56] 4 easy steps to get started.

[1:07:33.16] Step one, know the news.

[1:07:36.44] Figure out what your niche is.

[1:07:37.84] Find.

[1:07:38.76] Find your, your.

[1:07:39.72] If you.

[1:07:40.08] I'm sure you know what your niche is.

[1:07:41.28] And if you don't already, pay attention to the people who are driving the narrative in your niche, who are the most influential people.

[1:07:46.12] Be mindful of those big narratives.

[1:07:47.56] I'm not saying you have to read the news every day, but what are the three things that people are talking about right right now?

[1:07:52.44] Just ask yourself what are the controversies, or the pressing issues, or just the the the the subjects that people are primarily talking about.

[1:08:04.08] And then think, how can you connect yourself and your bio to those big narratives?

[1:08:12.08] Step 2 have a surprising view.

[1:08:16.84] This is not putting it out there, but in your notes, in your private writing, start to brainstorm.

[1:08:24.36] Take one or more of those narratives and start to brainstorm.

[1:08:28.2] What is?

[1:08:28.48] What is your perspective?

[1:08:29.32] If you don't have a take already, what is your opinion?

[1:08:31.88] What do you think about it?

[1:08:33.96] You can walk yourself through different exercises.

[1:08:36.48] What is wrong about?

[1:08:38.52] The prevailing conversation what's What's the opposite of what everybody else is saying?

[1:08:43.24] Is there any sense to that?

[1:08:45.76] Do you have some expertise that you could bring to bear from your training or otherwise write yourself a quote?

[1:08:54.72] Take the template I just put here.

[1:08:56.12] What's most important to understand about this narrative is what it's about you.

[1:09:01.76] So what's most important to understand about why Jeff Bezos is moving to Miami is he doesn't want to get taxed the same at at these new levels, which I think is probably true.

[1:09:13.96] Do you agree, Daniel?

[1:09:15.2] Maybe he says it's per second, like he wouldn't just say I want.

[1:09:18.24] To say no, no, I I, I I'd likely, yeah, it's probably the Texas.

[1:09:23.12] Which haven't passed yet.

[1:09:24.04] Like there's loo I think, as far as I know, like the the rumors to pass.

[1:09:27.44] But he's like boycotting, voting with his feet.

[1:09:32.68] If he's trying to bargain or trying to to hold their feet to the fire, it's a pretty good, it's a pretty.

[1:09:37.28] Good.

[1:09:37.4] Yeah.

[1:09:37.56] Yeah.

[1:09:37.76] And he's done.

[1:09:38.24] He's done, he's done.

[1:09:39.16] He's done this tactic before with Amazon, like, you know, stopping developments of buildings because they were going to pass some union law and whatever.

[1:09:47.32] So it's pretty consistent with his behavior.

[1:09:51.32] Interesting.

[1:09:52.48] Yeah.

[1:09:52.6] It wouldn't shock me if he changes his mind or just moves there, but it's not really there most of the time.

[1:10:00.56] All right, so Step 3, connect.

[1:10:03.52] Once you know who the media are on your niche, follow them.

[1:10:06.8] Engage with them, you know, like, comment between, add value and when there's an appropriate opportunity.

[1:10:13.76] You've had some engagements that are organic.

[1:10:16.08] They like your stuff.

[1:10:16.92] They're responding to you.

[1:10:18.08] You can send Adm like I described before, which is it's just purely friendly saying I like what you do.

[1:10:24.56] I'm active in this area as well and you know, I appreciate the knowledge that you're bringing earn their attention, OK, So you know the news, you know your position on it.

[1:10:34] You started to connect with some of the people who are shaping those stories.

[1:10:38] And then Step 4, Think about creating a moment.

[1:10:42.2] Launch an initiative for something or against something.

[1:10:47.8] Generate a human interest story if your personal biography has some relevance to it.

[1:10:53.36] Unveil a surprise.

[1:10:54.52] Data, images, whatever it is you might have to add.

[1:10:59.28] Hopefully you start, the gears are starting to turn in your mind with some of these ideas.

[1:11:02.8] So I gave this presentation to or a version of this to somebody else and he went away and thought, Oh well, you know, or maybe I give a suggestion to him.

[1:11:11.08] He gets more impressions on his Twitter account now the New York Times does.

[1:11:15.28] And so one thing that he started doing is regularly mentioning to his followers in public, saying we are influencing more people right now than the New York Times.

[1:11:26.2] And I'm not going to guarantee anything, but that's a story that's waiting to be told.

[1:11:30.44] And when when it comes out there, they're going to mention something like he claims that he has more impressions.

[1:11:34.36] The New York Times that is more rich than the New York Times, it will become part of the story.

[1:11:37.32] And that's that's what I'm thinking of is put yourself in the position to start being a part of the story.

[1:11:44.64] OK.

[1:11:45.76] And with that this final exercise is really summarizing what we just did.

[1:11:51.04] I will hit pause here if you're interested in more on this.

[1:11:55.16] Obviously we have 15 minutes for for the discussion and questions.

[1:11:58.12] If if people would like, you can continue the question the the conversation offline with DM ING me on Twitter.

[1:12:04.84] BF Carlson is my handle emailing me BF Carlson at alembicpartners.com.

[1:12:09.84] And if you want to check out my sub stack where I write about issues in in media and elsewhere, please do.

[1:12:16.24] It's called the Carlson letter and that's the presentation.

[1:12:20.28] Thanks, Daniel.

[1:12:22.48] No, no, thank.

[1:12:23.24] Thank you, Ben.

[1:12:23.84] It's very interesting.

[1:12:25.04] I had a question myself.

[1:12:26.2] So you actually mentioned something that I was thinking already about, you know, in the new world of Twitter and all of us potentially having a small audience that we're seeing, I mean, I probably think.

[1:12:40.88] I don't know if I'm think I'm I'm maybe I'm not being modest enough but I probably think I get more impressions also than the New York Times in some cases.

[1:12:49] Is that true or I'm just my I'm sort of I'm deluding myself like is the is the attention from even major publications that significant anymore or is it more of the authoritative value that maybe we should be because that's that's interests me like I said before but.

[1:13:09.92] I'm curious about the attention part.

[1:13:11.84] May maybe I'm I'm not aware what should basically maybe maybe what should I have asked you is like what type of clicks or or attention should they expect?

[1:13:21.84] If I get featured say on the New York Times like one of the most major publications, should I, should I expect like millions of people to start looking me up on Google or is it more, you know 1000 or two, which is not that much.

[1:13:35.56] Yeah, it's it's a huge, it's a it's a good question.

[1:13:38.32] I think owning your audience is the best thing you can do.

[1:13:41.92] And getting attention from media is valuable, especially if you consider people like people like you media, right.

[1:13:53.72] So I mean in a sense you are running a an account that has influence, that has followers, that has large numbers of impressions.

[1:14:00.92] So you are you are a media brand, in a sense, and getting your attention is valuable for sure.

[1:14:06.8] So what would happen with the New York Times story?

[1:14:11] At a minimum, you can say that you were featured in the New York Times.

[1:14:14.6] A lot of people might not notice it.

[1:14:17.4] At most, if they're suddenly, if they put you prominently like the lead anecdote in a story you know, they even make you the subject of a story that can be life changing, for sure, for better or for worse.

[1:14:28.36] But it it it really can change your life because you suddenly get a lot of people who had never heard of you before suddenly talking about you.

[1:14:34.64] And I wouldn't underestimate that 'cause we do live in these silos now.

[1:14:38.48] And the value of reaching media, including people like you, is it takes us outside of our own audience and the algorithms are recommending us to certain people.

[1:14:49.04] Well, guess what?

[1:14:49.48] If you start talking about Ben Carlson to your audience, it doesn't matter what the algorithm says.

[1:14:54.64] I'm getting to you.

[1:14:55.92] You featured me last night.

[1:14:57.76] You you promoted me in this event.

[1:15:00.48] So that's what we're talking about, is the more people talk about you outside of your own audiences, the more benefits you'll see.

[1:15:06.16] It doesn't have to be mainstream media at all.

[1:15:09.44] Makes sense.

[1:15:09.88] No, it's a it's an endorsement.

[1:15:11.32] Yeah.

[1:15:11.48] Louis, go ahead.

[1:15:13.6] Hey guys Ben thank you so much for doing this.

[1:15:16.28] It was awesome.

[1:15:18.64] First I got so I got a scenario.

[1:15:22.52] Hopefully I can.

[1:15:23.2] I can all get it all out.

[1:15:24.32] I'm going to walk right now.

[1:15:25.2] But basically I I gave, I spoke to a reporter from Bloomberg a while back.

[1:15:30.52] He was writing a story about the pragmatic engineer, which is written by Gerge.

[1:15:35.76] And you know, I guess Gerge didn't want to talk to the guy.

[1:15:37.96] He didn't need the exposure or whatever.

[1:15:40.12] And so he, he just reached out to people that were commenting under his stuff and he saw, you know, that I had some connection to him.

[1:15:47.16] And he said, do you mind getting on a call?

[1:15:48.76] And at first, you know, I I didn't realize that he had reached out to Gurgi at all to try to get him on.

[1:15:54.52] And.

[1:15:54.84] And so anyway, I got on the call with the guy and you know, I clarified everything for him, like, you know, basically said some nice things about Gurgi.

[1:16:01.92] Ultimately, the article got published about how the Pragmatic Engineer, 500,000 Subs, number one tech newsletter in the world is written by one guy, You know, that was sort of his article.

[1:16:13.48] And so now I'm thinking.

[1:16:16.72] You know, after hearing you talk about all this, I know that guy.

[1:16:19.44] Like, I IDM with him.

[1:16:21.2] You know that the guy who wrote that article, IDM with him, I helped him out when Gergie wasn't even willing to help him out.

[1:16:27.12] And so I'm thinking maybe I should reach out to him now, you know, and and say maybe maybe surface the idea of him writing about small bets or him writing about do you think this is a good idea or this is this is dumb.

[1:16:43.56] It's not dumb.

[1:16:44.2] It's hard to pull off.

[1:16:45.8] What you're describing is what a lot of PR people do.

[1:16:49.36] And I'll tell you that my experience with it is it's it's a long term game and it's relationship based.

[1:16:57.6] And the the less you ask for it, the likelier it will work.

[1:17:01] So in your case, what I might suggest is you have this relationship.

[1:17:05] If you can get lunch with a guy, if he can't find, you know, have a phone call and just ask for his advice, say, hey, I've I've got this community I'm a part of.

[1:17:13.36] I really love what we're seeing.

[1:17:15.56] We have some incredible people.

[1:17:16.64] Drop some names, you know, just as you're telling the story make it as compelling as as it is, right.

[1:17:22.92] But but tell that story.

[1:17:23.92] And so I just want your advice.

[1:17:25.36] I really feel like we have, you know, an opportunity to to dialogue with media and podcasts and get get this message out about how entrepreneurship is not what everybody thinks.

[1:17:36.6] It's actually easier and people should get started now.

[1:17:40.08] And this is, this is valuable for everybody.

[1:17:42.8] How would you recommend, I, you know, who would you recommend I talk to?

[1:17:45.72] Right.

[1:17:45.92] So then he feels like he's being consulted as an expert.

[1:17:50] And in the back of his mind, he's thinking, yeah, this is kind of interesting, you know, then he feels like he's owning it.

[1:17:54.92] That's that's the secret really is somebody has to feel like they came up with the idea themselves.

[1:17:59.72] So give him all the goods, ask for his advice, which might be helpful, and then you really don't know it.

[1:18:06.68] It can't hurt.

[1:18:07.24] It certainly can't hurt.

[1:18:09.52] I love that it's a little bit of conception.

[1:18:12.4] Yeah.

[1:18:13.48] This is.

[1:18:14.04] I've said this so often I I hope I don't repeat myself here.

[1:18:18.4] If you want money, ask for advice.

[1:18:20.08] And if you want advice, ask for money.

[1:18:22.2] This is something that a friend of mine said, and it's pretty good advice.

[1:18:27.2] Yeah, so ask for advice here.

[1:18:28.44] And you're not literally asking for money, but you are asking for a sale.

[1:18:30.84] Like you're making a sale about SO.

[1:18:33.52] Ben, what's the difference between what you just told Louis versus what you told us before about citing the PC yourself like to make to make the journalist job easier?

[1:18:43.92] Because actually, I thought this was what you were going to suggest to Louis.

[1:18:46.56] Actually, just decide whatever you want to be seen and sort of make it look like, oh, look, I mean, there's something already that you can just pretty much copy and paste and your job is done.

[1:18:56.96] You can spend time with your kids and have fun for the rest of the day.

[1:19:01.8] It's yeah, there's there's psychology that's a little hard to unpack.

[1:19:08.16] It's kind of easier to say yes to a pitch from a stranger than to say yes to a pitch from a friend.

[1:19:12.4] Because you don't want to be, I don't know.

[1:19:15.4] It's sort of like selling to your friends.

[1:19:16.68] So it could it could work.

[1:19:17.96] It just sort of depends the the degree of your relationship with him.

[1:19:21.36] And if Small Bets is doing something new, I 100% would tell him because it's kind of a favor.

[1:19:27.36] You say, hey, by the way, I wanted you to be the first to know there's a story so you wouldn't pitch him on writing your own story unless he's an editor.

[1:19:34.92] If he's an editor, then yeah, you could pitch him and say, hey, I have this idea for a Bloomberg opinion story about how every American should be starting a small bet online.

[1:19:47.16] Everybody in the world, but just, you know, American.

[1:19:49] For Bloomberg, here's the the first paragraph.

[1:19:51.8] Do you think this is interesting?

[1:19:53.32] Get the feedback.

[1:19:54.24] If he's a reporter, make sure there's something new, like you're launching XYZ.

[1:19:59.76] You've hit some target.

[1:20:01.96] That's what I recommend.

[1:20:02.68] So yeah, you can pitch it in in an e-mail form, but make sure there's something new or he's actually the right person to be sending your own writing idea to.

[1:20:12.32] Is that helpful for what you want?

[1:20:13.48] Yeah.

[1:20:14] Can can you, can you maybe clarify for us lay lay people like the editor versus the Porter distinction because to be honest for me like like you know outside of the industry like I I don't distinguish them like how how first of all how do they think differently like their their perspective.

[1:20:32] And first of all, and also like how do I recognize whether somebody's a reporter versus somebody is an editor?

[1:20:36.8] Like do they always say I'm the editor like or is it more I have to go to their LinkedIn to to find out.

[1:20:44.88] Usually they self identify.

[1:20:47.08] That makes it a little easier.

[1:20:49.56] It's the difference between difference between an editor and writer is the different or reporter is the difference between a producer and a host.

[1:20:58.04] If that's any more understandable, it's the person who So an editor is in charge of a section.

[1:21:06.72] I'm in charge of the small business section.

[1:21:11.64] Every day we publish 2 stories in the small business section.

[1:21:14.4] I have two reporters who filed in, me and maybe some freelancers on the side.

[1:21:18.04] It's my job to review that, decide which stories are going to go out today and talk to my editors who are saying, Oh no, no, we should have something on Sam Bankman free.

[1:21:26.88] This news just broke.

[1:21:27.52] OK, shit, now I have to go talk to find a freelancer who can write a Sam Bankman free story.

[1:21:31.2] That's kind of the process.

[1:21:31.96] An editor is the one who's responsible for filling the holes.

[1:21:35.44] The reporter is the one who fills it.

[1:21:37.36] So in a strange way, the hierarchy is editors are more are the bosses of the reporters.

[1:21:43.52] But the reporters get the glory and they This is why some people who are reporters never want to be editors.

[1:21:48.08] And some editors are resentful of reporters because they're the ones who have their name on the story.

[1:21:52.48] They're talking to Elon Musk.

[1:21:54.2] The editor doesn't talk to Elon Musk, The reporter does.

[1:21:56.44] And then I hope that helps.

[1:21:57.96] So if you're talking, if you want an editor decide to cover something, you tell them this subject is really, really cool and then they'll either agree with you or they'll send it to a freelancer and say, hey, I think we want a story on small bets and you talk to Louis and Daniel and make this happen.

[1:22:15.88] So, so, so let's say I make a, you know, I create and I create a story myself.

[1:22:20.28] I survey all the members and small bets and find something interesting like that.

[1:22:24.32] You know, thousands of people are and you should brand it and do it every year.

[1:22:27.92] But go ahead.

[1:22:28.64] Yeah, yeah.

[1:22:29] No, because this made me think about it.

[1:22:31.04] But should I go to an editor or to a reporter?

[1:22:33.16] It's still unclear to me.

[1:22:34.44] Who should I seek to?

[1:22:35.72] Let's say I want Forbes or or, I don't know, like or was the chair and the law somebody you should probably send it to?

[1:22:44.88] Both.

[1:22:45.36] Because both the editor, the reporter has a job of pitching stories to the editor and every reporter is looking for stories like, OK, I got my meeting.

[1:22:54.76] This coming up with the editor, I need to bring 3 ideas.

[1:22:58.32] What do I got?

[1:22:58.96] You look through your inbox, you look through your notes, you look through, you know, Twitter.

[1:23:01.6] And then if I see, oh, this guy Daniel sent me an e-mail saying next Tuesday they're releasing this data set for the small bed survey that shows something fascinating.

[1:23:11.52] And I've got a it's called embargoed.

[1:23:14.32] So embargo just means I'll share it with you privately.

[1:23:17.6] If the reporter agrees to that, they have exclusive access and they can write about it and release it at the moment that you've agreed upon once the embargo lifts.

[1:23:26.04] And that's how all this news stories about data come out, except for government data, they'll do just this.

[1:23:32.76] So that's what I'd recommend.

[1:23:33.72] Send it to the editor and the reporter, and one of them might look at it and decide.

[1:23:38.84] Like is is this whole embargo think something that would make sense even for something relatively small?

[1:23:44.8] I mean, I'm not.

[1:23:45.6] Presumably we're not going to the field.

[1:23:48.08] You know the next, you know White House conduct or something like that.

[1:23:53.08] It's like it's just a small thing.

[1:23:54.96] I use embargoes.

[1:23:55.92] It's it's it's a conventional thing it's it's a way of communicating.

[1:24:00.04] We don't talk about please don't talk about this publicly until X date.

[1:24:03] It also communicates a certain professionals and like oh there's a plan there's a deadline.

[1:24:06.72] If we're going to do it now's the moment plan around that.

[1:24:10.68] So it's it's worth doing.

[1:24:13.08] Got it, Got it.

[1:24:14.2] Because if if you come to somebody and you don't communicate that it's embargoed or exclusive, then you think, well, is this already out there?

[1:24:21.28] Now, I'm old, right?

[1:24:22.44] I I don't want to be publishing it after everybody else has gotten to it.

[1:24:25.24] But if you tell me, I will be one of the first ones to write about it because it's private until this next day, then I'm interested.

[1:24:33.56] Does that make sense?

[1:24:34.84] Yeah, yeah, makes sense, Makes sense.

[1:24:36.2] Who so you know you have experience in the industry, like who do you think are like And you know in passing you mentioned for example that maybe Forbes is everything.

[1:24:44.4] It's prestige and whatever.

[1:24:46.4] And maybe we again as lay people might not even notice these kinds of things.

[1:24:49.52] I I still taught Forbes this, you know, quite prestigious.

[1:24:52.44] But yeah, I don't mean to break anybody's illusion, but realistically, it's not what it once was.

[1:24:56.8] It isn't.

[1:24:57.72] Right, Yeah.

[1:25:01.16] Like if you were to thank some of the the high, valuable, high authoritative media places say what would be your top 5B At least maybe in the area of business at least Wall Street Journal Bloomberg FT.

[1:25:20.2] No disrespect to FTI don't know what is well, but here's something that American journalist believe about British journalism.

[1:25:26.32] British journalism has different standards IE they're a little looser with fact checking than American newspapers are.

[1:25:34] Doesn't mean that there's wrong stuff in FT.

[1:25:35.72] It's just being honest.

[1:25:37.16] That's kind of my informed my opinion.

[1:25:42.84] Fortune is still quite good.

[1:25:44.36] Fortune is legit.

[1:25:46] And then I would always put New Yorker up there, because New Yorker, you wouldn't believe.

[1:25:50.84] It doesn't mean they get everything right at all.

[1:25:53.12] Every single word is fact checked.

[1:25:54.56] And what does that mean?

[1:25:55.8] I submit a story.

[1:25:57.56] Somebody else after I've fully edited it, which is a painful process, goes through every single word and calls up the same people I talked to and says, did you actually say this?

[1:26:07.32] The whole story is done again and not many places do that.

[1:26:11.64] That's a very expensive and tedious process.

[1:26:14.32] That's this thing I see your hand out, yeah.

[1:26:18.6] Hey, Hey, man.

[1:26:19.68] Thank you so much for today.

[1:26:20.6] It was very, very interesting, very helpful.

[1:26:24] I guess trying to get beyond behind the scenes a little bit, Editors, reporters, those are key people.

[1:26:31.04] Who else in the industry might know where your story might get published?

[1:26:35.76] I I guess what I'm trying to solve for is when you're new in a field, you might not know which newsletters are.

[1:26:42.68] You know, addressing your niche or or which reporters or editors might be interested in a story that you have, even if you know a called e-mail might not, you know, open the doors for you because you know you don't know their style well and whatnot.

[1:26:56.08] So I'm trying to understand who else in the industry or maybe in adjacent industries might be, you know, important people to be a friend with to get their thoughts on.

[1:27:06.48] And then, you know, ask those questions, like who might be the right editors and reporters and places be?

[1:27:13.52] This is kind of in hypothesis, right?

[1:27:16.6] I think it would work this way but not sure and would love to hear your thoughts.

[1:27:24.12] People are more accessible than you might think and this is true of authors as well as reporters.

[1:27:29.08] So what I would suggest is to find what you like to read and or what you like to listen to.

[1:27:38.52] So I'm gonna say read because that's just kind of my background.

[1:27:40.56] But you know podcasts and and YouTube are the same thing and usually there's a way to write back to the reporter, right?

[1:27:47.08] So you enjoyed something that was written about a business story that you're interested in or doesn't have to business, whatever it is.

[1:27:53.24] You can usually construct the e-mail that you can either hit one button to write to the reporter if they make it accessible, or you can figure out the e-mail address and just write to the person and say, hey, I really like this story that will have so much value because they don't get as many of those as you might think.

[1:28:10.44] They get a lot of crazy people.

[1:28:12] They get a lot of hate mail.

[1:28:12.72] But just a nice letter saying, I read this, I don't really liked it, thank you.

[1:28:17.04] You're going to be going to be on their radar and you'll probably get a reply back.

[1:28:21.8] And even if you don't you can always follow up later and just say, hey.

[1:28:25.04] By the way, I'm, I'm active in this niche and just wanted to let you know I like what you do and we're launching something in a couple weeks and you don't want to go right from the complement to a cold pitch, but it's a pretty easy bridge to get there because now you're a real person and you pay attention to real people.

[1:28:40.64] You don't pay attention to somebody who sounds like a bot or they're messing with you, right?

[1:28:45] So I might start there.

[1:28:46.72] Let's just consume something you care about and then send a nice note about it that.

[1:28:53.8] That's a that's a good thing.

[1:28:55] I feel like my biggest secret in all of these lessons I give is just be a decent human and be nice to people.

[1:29:01.88] Yeah, especially on the Internet.

[1:29:03.6] Man, that's gold.

[1:29:04.6] It's so good.

[1:29:05.72] Yeah.

[1:29:05.96] Yeah.

[1:29:06.08] Dubai is not very, very high.

[1:29:09.2] Ben.

[1:29:09.44] I have one quick question myself before maybe others have more questions.

[1:29:12.92] Feel free to post PR agencies.

[1:29:16.2] Do you think maybe you have experience with with them yourself?

[1:29:20.24] Do they help, especially as very small business like the kinds of things that we do like?

[1:29:26.32] If I didn't, if I want to get featured in the media, but I don't have the time or the patience to do all the things you suggested that we do, can I hire somebody that gets me featured in in some of the publications you mentioned?

[1:29:40.88] I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?

[1:29:44.12] No, no.

[1:29:44.44] So like I'm wondering like do PR agencies do what you told us to do effectively?

[1:29:52.32] Like basically can I hire them to do?

[1:29:55.32] All this sort of relationship building and lighting stories, they will save you work for sure.

[1:30:02.84] They will overcharge you for assigning a if you hire a big agency, they'll they'll bring the big gun.

[1:30:10.52] This is how agencies work.

[1:30:11.36] They'll bring a big gun to talk to you on the phone and they'll be really, really good.

[1:30:14.88] They will be.

[1:30:15.96] And then the person who executes on your on your account might or might not be good, but will definitely be more junior.

[1:30:22.68] So I don't want to be cynical or dismissive about actually, there's there's a lot of value there.

[1:30:26.28] What pitching, especially with like podcasts, is a volume game and there are people who get paid on actual delivery, so you would only pay them if you get signed up for three or five podcast appearances.

[1:30:42.4] The bad thing is if you're a podcast host, you're blasted with requests, but some of them come through because they're always looking for guests.

[1:30:49.8] And if there's a good guest and it's a good pitch, then then it's a match.

[1:30:54.88] So.

[1:30:55.08] So some of those agencies might actually be smart.

[1:30:58.8] And I think podcasts are one of these good opportunities for, for a little bit of spend, conventional PR agencies, they'll write your press releases, they'll manage your social media, but you're doing all the things that they you're better at, at a lot of the stuff that they would be offering, to be honest, you personally, Daniel.

[1:31:14.08] So no, I wouldn't do it for general stuff, but maybe for podcasts or TV that that is easier, that is harder to break into.

[1:31:23] Makes sense.

[1:31:23.52] Makes sense getting in the speaker's Bureau.

[1:31:26] I don't know if you have a represent like an agent or Representative Daniel but for you know other people on here too.

[1:31:31.76] What what is the speaker's Bureau?

[1:31:33] It's, you know, if I'm looking for somebody to talk at an event or to talk on TV, Speaker's Bureau has a collection of experts on subjects and when if you can get included in one of those, that can be helpful that you'll get invitations.

[1:31:46.76] And where it is like I never heard of them like how do I get on the list I'll if you search for.

[1:31:55.72] Like is there is there a well known one Bureau or is it like lots of small ones?

[1:32:00.12] How does it look like there are there's not one speaking agency.

[1:32:07.12] So I I wish I could give you a a good concrete lead here but like a book agent you write to these people and say here's who I am here's why you might want to represent me and they're always looking for clients who are they can sell because they got a cut right.

[1:32:22.44] So it's the same with the speakers Bureau they if they want to take you on, it's there is incentivized to welcome new people into their fold if they're good fit and that's that's a great way to get your name out there.

[1:32:37.76] Sounds good.

[1:32:39.72] Sounds good.

[1:32:40.48] OK.

[1:32:41] Well, I think I think we've got up with all the questions and we're we're we're on time.

[1:32:45] So Ben, thank you so much.

[1:32:47.44] This was really, really, really interesting.

[1:32:49.52] Lots of to think about.

[1:32:52.36] I hope maybe we'll get some results as well.

[1:32:54.68] I'll give it a shot, but thank you for spending some time with us, Ben.

[1:32:58.4] My pleasure.

[1:32:59.12] Thanks, Daniel.

[1:32:59.6] Thanks everybody in the community.

[1:33:01.28] Thank you everyone.

[1:33:03.92] See you all.

[1:33:05.36] Bye.